Live and let live, but in fear.

File photo to accompany the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks

This article is about terrorism, more specifically terrorism and its impact on the people and democracies of the developed world. It’s time for some direct talking, not to the terrorists because they’re beyond reason, but to the ordinary person who is their target.

I’ve heard on more than one occasion that the reason a few hundred thousand Britons could rule over the huge population of India in the heyday of the British Empire, was that they never interfered with the local culture or religion, and indeed even went native themselves in subtle ways.

That’s a fundamentally erroneous idea springing from a basic ignorance of historical fact and reinforced by the residual feel-good attitudes of that failed experiment we called multiculturalism. If they found a local practice repugnant according to their own moral code, they outlawed it and simply hung or imprisoned anyone who persisted in doing it.

For example, the practice of Suttee involved the voluntary or sometimes involuntary burning of widows atop their husband’s funeral pyre. They outlawed it. Another example would be them annihilating the Thuggee sect, who believed the people they strangled were sacrifices to placate the death goddess Kali. Anybody who aided or abetted those activities risked the hangman’s noose, and that’s why both the practise of Suttee and the cult of the Thuggees died out in India.

So, if you’re the boss of the country and some small section of people in it are indulging in a practise you find deeply offensive, you have the right to forbid them from doing it and punish them if they persist. Stating that in an unvarnished way, it’s your country and they do as you tell them or they suffer or get out of it. That’s always been the rule, despite what some deluded people might have come to think in recent decades.

There are some stark realities in the coming years that various parties are going to have to face up to whether they like it or not, because as always, times change and you have to respond realistically to those new circumstances or accept being at the mercy of them.

The first one is we have to concede that the western attitude of live and let live without interfering in the lives of minorities is no longer viable when a terrorism threat is originating from that area and killing ordinary people. If ruling liberal elites continue to act as if there’s no problem and consequently hamstring efforts by the police and security services to go after it and root it out, then after enough deaths they’ll be forced to take the more draconian action demanded by their frightened electorates.

There is somehow an implicit assumption that terrorism only poses a threat to America, it’s their problem and everyone else can relax. Don’t kid yourself, whatever country you live in, no matter how enlightened you feel it is, you’re under threat too; it’s just a matter of time. After 9/11 in New York, 7/7 in London, the Madrid bombings and most recently the tragic murders in Canada, attitudes had to change. On every one of those occasions, people were genuinely shocked that it could be happening in their country, and was even being done by born and bred nationals of those countries.

What compounded the shock was that the then fashionable idea of multiculturalism had engendered the notion that being part of a minority made one good and above criticism. If you dared to disapprove of any aspect of their culture, you were automatically howled down as a bigot or even worse, a racist. Knowing they could operate under this cloak of virtual invulnerability, extremist sections within these communities relied on it to radicalise, recruit and train followers to carry out acts of terrorism. They did exactly that and we’re now looking at the results of it; an enemy within.

Even the criminal element within those communities used this get out of jail free card to their advantage. For instance, the recent conviction of a large gang of Asian men in the UK who’d been sex trafficking white girls and boys for over a decade, did so with the police and social services turning a blind eye because they feared the race card would be played if they intervened. There was a different law being applied or not, dependent on nothing more than a person’s colour or ethnicity. It was the children who suffered.

To quote Angela Merkel, multiculturalism failed “utterly” but the effects of that failure live on. The Chairman of the UK Commission for Racial Equality, said that the end result of multiculturalism was ghettoisation. I’d agree with that assessment though perhaps by a different line of reasoning outlined in a previous article. The attitude of live and let live combined with the natural opacity of what’s going on in a ghetto, allowed the threat to grow unseen until it was far too late.

Even when the murderous threat materialised, certain sections of the liberal intelligentsia and media, after a suitable silence of a week or two, had the temerity to voice the opinion that in reality it was somehow all our fault for being oppressors of some or other minority. That’s coming at you Canada. It’s not just that they’re divorced from reality of common opinion, but that they just cannot let go of that idea that being any sort of minority automatically makes you better than one of the local natives, whom to be frank they despise anyway.

That sort of attitude, while of course permissible in a democracy, plays into the hands of terrorists because terrorism does work on occasion, despite what we like to think. For instance, Spain in the immediate aftermath of the Madrid bombings withdrew what few troops it had deployed in the gulf. The intimidation worked and Spain by giving in to it, has put their citizens even further into harm’s way. If some gang of terrorists wants to change Spanish government policy, just explode a few more bombs there. That’s why we should never give in to terrorism, because in essence it’s a transfer of power from an elected government to a few murderous thugs.

Terrorism combined with the residual delusions of multiculturalism even works to inhibit or suppress pointed comment in various forums. One of the strongest weapons we have against totalitarianism and extremism is to point out its inconsistencies using humour, and yet I’ve never heard a stand up comedian having a go at radical Islam. They’re happy to constantly denigrate Christianity or Judaism because they’re safe targets, but stay well away from the Muslims or they might suffer the death threats of that cartoonist in Denmark. There is an urban legend of an Aussie comedian who has a go but if so, he seems to be unique. If you feel too scared to laugh at them, then that’s a big win for the terrorists.

There are equally pressing issues thrown up by terrorism for people who are members of minority communities who rightly or wrongly are being associated with their atrocities.

The major one is that the religion of Islam has been hijacked by the terrorists who use an obscene interpretation of it as justification for their outrages. For better or worse, people now talk about Muslim terrorists not extreme Muslim terrorists. Living in an environment of distrust and fear of any minority generates a simple view of the world, uncomplicated by such nice distinctions. Perception trumps fact every time and the only way of changing that perception is to demonstrate what a marginal influence extremists have in your communities.

A measured denunciation by some obscure imam in the wake of the latest mass atrocity just isn’t making the grade. It merely reinforces the paranoid idea that the terrorists are a deniable military arm advancing some hidden agenda of your community. That’s neither fair nor true but that’s the perception. You have to start actively preaching out against these people, rooting them out of positions of influence and yes, rendering to the police and security services all the help they need to combat such elements who injure us all. A bomb on a crowded bus or railway carriage doesn’t stop to consider the religious persuasion of the passengers, whether Muslim or not.

Terrorism has changed the world for you too. Instead of the majority needing to be ultra sensitive to your cultural needs, the position has been reversed and you now have to be sensitive to their needs, because their attitudes and tolerance towards minorities have worn pretty thin. Things like lobbying hard to get a mosque built right next to the Twin Towers site was the worst sort of insult to the memory of two thousand slaughtered innocents, no matter what religious sophistry was being used to justify it.

To the terrorists, I’d say you’ve had all your cheap hits. Things are tougher for you now. The assumption that the apparently lax attitudes of democracies meant we were weak and a pushover will yet again prove to be baseless. We’re not only on guard against you but we’ve got good men actively hunting you. You’d be surprised at how ruthless we can be to defend our freedoms, so you better be prepared to be dragged out of some hole for nothing better than a bullet between your eyes. If that means we’re prepared to trade down an element of our personal freedom, so be it.

We all lost something in the fire.

On the day the planes hit the twin towers, a younger brother of mine was a lecturer in socialist econometrics. He stood and watched in the campus of a university in central London rich fee-paying Arabic students of his dancing around in joy of what was happening. That not only showed him how much he didn’t really know what was their mindset but killed forever the unconditional live and let live ethos of his liberal politics which had always divided us.

On the day the planes hit the twin towers, I was managing a team at Canary Wharf, the financial centre of London. There was a rumour that a London bound plane nobody could get in touch with was heading in our direction. The top management were patently doing nothing more than denial and displacement activity with their thumb up their arse and in the meantime everyone should stand by their desk and await further orders, so I told my crew to go home. That’s the duty of care. Nobody moved so for the first time ever I ordered them to just get the fuck out of there in a loud enough voice for other people to hear. They moved. What the rest did, I don’t know.

When I was sure they’d all gone, I retired to a local bar and watched helplessly the tragedy unfold on television. I was joined by a friend who’d also told his team to go home but who also couldn’t leave the vicinity because helping hands might just be needed if all the shit came raining down. He asked me what I was thinking and in an unguarded moment of pure anger I spoke exactly what was on my mind. Three things. I told him it was a massive intelligence failure, a brilliant operation from their perspective and we’d kill their arse for doing it. All three were true.

Take a look at the picture heading up this piece. Take a really hard look. There’s five men carrying another injured one in a chair because there’s nothing like a stretcher available. They’re getting him to safety. In the ordinary way of things, it should only take two or three at most to carry that weight but they’re working in an atmosphere of choking cement dust which makes breathing almost impossible. None of them are looking to each other for support because each one of them is fighting their own individual battle against their own clogged lungs to get that injured man out of there.

I don’t know whether the man they were carrying made it or not, and I do hope he did, but what I’m damn sure of is that every one of those men who got him to safety turned around and went straight back into that hell to save anyone else who’d survived the attack.

They’re exactly why I know we’re going to beat the terrorists.

©Pointman

Related articles by Pointman:

Why Multiculturalism failed.

The times they are a changing and a righteous kill.

The Nigger Word.

Click for a list of other articles.

 

Comments
36 Responses to “Live and let live, but in fear.”
  1. aldente88 says:

    The man in the chair was Father Mychal Judge and designated as the first death identified that day.

  2. artwest says:

    I largely agree with you, but have to point out that the phrase ” large gang of Asian men in the UK” is using the word the authorities use to cloud the issue. They weren’t just generally Asian, they were almost all, if not entirely, Muslims of Pakistani origin.

    I also don’t think that the terrorists are using any sort of corrupted form of Islam. If anything, those Muslims who behave moderately, are not behaving in the original spirit of Islam. Thankfully.

  3. Lesley says:

    There have been further atrocities identified in our cities. A recent independent report has a bottom line of 1400 girls raped and abused by mainly Pakistani Men in Rotherham. Police, local council, social services and Care Home staff have all been shown to be complicit in the abuse by refusing to investigate due to ‘racial issues’. I think, finally, the ordinary people in Britain are starting to fight back. For too long they’ve been ignored and pushed aside by the elite.

  4. Janet S says:

    You left out Enoch Powell, who warned (prophesied) against the dangerous doctrine of multiculturalism even before the word was invented, but perhaps that was sensible, as any mention of his name is pretty much guaranteed to bring out the frothing loonies:/

    I was totally with you right up to the point where you said “the religion of Islam has been hijacked by the terrorists”, implying that Islamic terrorism is some sort of perversion of Islam. I agree with artwest. It isnt a perversion. It’s Islam in its truest, purest, original form, started by the raping and pillaging warlord Mohammed around 630 AD and carried on without pause for 1400 or so years. Have a look at the history and archaeology of the Dark Ages in Europe. Investigate what happened to India when the Moslems arrived. Ask what really went on during the so-called golden age of Islam. Maybe wonder just how many Arab slavers operated in Africa – and how many there still are. Nothing has changed. Islam never went through any Reformation. We are merely in the new phase of a very old war.

  5. Truthseeker says:

    This is a minor nit pick but it is my understanding the 9/11 attacks were not a massive intelligence failure, but more correctly a massive bureaucratic failure. Those at the security coal face had determined that the attack was iminent. It was those in the reality free zones of bureacracy and government who failed so spectacularly. Of course with a lot of CYA going on the reality of this may never be known.

    For those who want to see the extent of the evil that these people commit daily across all parts of the world, just go here:

    http://thereligionofpeace.com/

    So, do you feel safe punk? Well do you?

  6. Blackswan says:

    Pointman,

    Our lives have already been changed by Islam. Anybody who enters an airport to fly anywhere knows that. Anybody who takes any notice of what we buy in a supermarket knows that. Ever noticed the little ‘Halal Certified’ logo on Cadbury or Kraft products among dozens of others? All our abattoirs now have a highly-paid resident imam who, for a 10% tithe on each beast, ‘blesses’ the hapless animals going to slaughter and the same with our chicken processors. And it ALL comes at a cost … to we the consumers. Many food producers try to avoid the Western backlash by declining to put the Halal logo on their products but, with their deliveries and export markets under threat, they still submit to the extortion racket by paying the Muslim tax … and so do we in the price we pay at the checkout … deprived of our right to choose.

    In France, the UK and Canada it has been proven that halal certification schemes directly fund organisations such as Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood – terrorist organisations determined to destroy the West.
    In Canada alone it was found that $14.8 million dollars had been funnelled to Hamas from halal certification money.

    http://pickeringpost.com/story/kirralie-shames-our-gun-shy-govt/4012

    Child marriages, polygamy, sharia courts and female genital mutilation are all practised within Western Islamist ghettos, but prosecutions are few and far between as there are few complainants and zero witnesses.

    Terrorism isn’t just about bombs and mangled corpses in our streets. It’s also about fear invading our everyday lives; fear to speak our minds for fear of prosecution under Racial Vilification Laws that make it a criminal act to “cause offense” to any minority. Fear to ride on public transport in case marauding gangs of Islamist youth decide to target you.

    In Australia, Muslims are 2% of our population and 40% of our prison inmates; 87% of our Muslim population are on Welfare Benefits, either unemployed or on Disability Pensions, and are the biggest user-group of our community service providers.

    Our politicians acquiesce because in our capital cities the Muslim vote controls many seats in our parliaments, both State and Federal – in western Sydney alone, about 20 seats hinge on Islamist approval.

    Live and let live? Not on your life. Without the dismantling of Multiculturalism and the protection it provides, Democracy will be its own undoing. As one Islamic leader gloated – “Our women’s wombs will change the world”. The numbers have it. Right is not might. The majority rules.

    If we fail to take a stand and speak out, on our current trajectory, it’s only a matter of time.

  7. Brian says:

    I was at work when the shootings in Ottawa were taking place. Totally unaware of them. My friend arrived in the afternoon to start his shift and he filled me in on the details that were known at the time. My reaction? The first words out of my mouth were: “I wonder how long it is going to take before they blame [PM] Harper?”

  8. Otter (ClimateOtter on Twitter) says:

    Pointman, may I repost your essay? With links back to you of course! The site I post my climate pieces at- Deviantart- is home to quite a few jihad apologists.

  9. stan stendera says:

    I rarely disagree with you Pointman, but you’re wrong on this one. The only answer is the systematic destruction of the Muslim religion and all Muslims. I almost didn’t post this comment because I thought I might be subject to harassment and worse. Well, I’m armed so bring it on. We can start by nuking Mecca during the Haji.

    • Pointman says:

      Killing people is easy. Destroying is easier. That’s what they do. Building something decent is a lot harder. Help me out here Stan.

      Pointy

      • stan stendera says:

        As you must know by this time I have immense respect, earned respect, for you personally, for your writing ability, and, not least, for your innate good sense. However you are flat wrong on this one. Since the conception of this so called religion of peace Muslims have caused destruction and death. When you have a cancer which can be cured by surgical removal you have surgery. Yes, I wish to build a better world. I just think the best place to start is by eradicating the Muslim religion and all its believers.

    • diogenese2 says:

      I did not intend to comment on this thread as there is just too much to say but Stan you provoke me by your desire to immolate 2m people, of diverse nationalities, identified by their indoctrination as children. There is a word for this – Genocide. My first encounter was in the fifties when I learned in graphic detail what had occurred in the world around time of my birth.
      I felt exactly as you did though, to some extent, the immolation of the dammed had already occurred.
      The thing that hit me the most was that, by and large, the perpetrators of the horrors revealed were ordinary blokes. I was 13 years old and had seen the heart of darkness at the core of the common man and what he could do given the opportunity. Consider your words and how your will differs from those of the subjects of this post. The brave and effective soldier fights not from fear, hate or lust but from need and love. Note that most of the dead in this fight are muslims killed by their brothers – it is primarily a civil war.
      Pointy – a couple of historic points on cultural enforcement.
      Suttee was a minor practice largely confined to wealthy Brahmin caste – and inheritance issues were sometimes apparent. A muslim Moghal emperor was the first to try to stop it.
      The Thugs were never popular and their suppression supported. Although worshippers of a Hindu goddess many captured Thugs were muslims. Figure that out!
      I also think that “Lacrimosa” might be even more apt. Its first performance was beside Mozarts deathbed and even he wept. Unrepentant atheist that I am, I have chosen that piece for my funeral, the family baulked at “Hasa Diga Eebowai”.

      • stan stendera says:

        So you point to some obscure event where the Muslim influence was positive. Bull shit. The simple. why do so many fools resist the simple, fact is that since the inception of this so called religion the Muslims have created havoc in the civilized world. They kill, maim, and enslave. There are Muslim slavers still operating in Africa. Slavers, savor that word, SLAVERS, people who enslave other people, people who damn young attractive women to harams and other forms of sex slavery, people who whip and abuse their victims who protest their atrocity
        You just think what I desire is two million people. I wish the whole religion abolished, never to trouble the world again. Muslims behead individuals who refuse to convert to the Muslim religion.. They behead others who convert to the wrong sect of the Muslim religion. What is wrong with eradicating the vicious people who perpetrate such atrocities. They don’t even do it in the name of religion. The Muslim religion is NOT a religion, it is a economic and political doctrine. I could go on, but I’m sure you get my drift.

        Pointman, I refuse to apologize for this diatribe because I am fed up with rationalizations about Muslims. Look what rationalism did in Rotherdame (sp?) in England, your home country. Are you proud of what happened there?

  10. durango12 says:

    Pointy’s optimism here is a bit premature when he says “we’re going to beat the terrorists.” That is not a given, not at all. For one thing most of Europe is toast both demographically and in its thoughtworld. Doubt me? Check this out then tell me I’m wrong http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/denmark-tries-a-soft-handed-approach-to-returned-islamist-fighters/2014/10/19/3516e8f3-515e-4adc-a2cb-c0261dd7dd4a_story.html The UK MIGHT have a chance but it is not at all a given. Canada just got a wake-up call, and the US could come back if adults return to the helm of the country.

    But I suspect — and fear — that something much much worse will need to happen before the West really understands what the stakes are.

  11. durango12 says:

    Pointy’s optimism here is a bit premature when he says “we’re going to beat the terrorists.” That is not a given, not at all. For one thing most of Europe is toast both demographically and in its thoughtworld. Doubt me? Check this out then tell me I’m wrong http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/denmark-tries-a-soft-handed-approach-to-returned-islamist-fighters/2014/10
    /19/3516e8f3-515e-4adc-a2cb-c0261dd7dd4a_story.html The UK MIGHT have a chance but it is not at all a given. Canada just got a wake-up call, and the US could come back if adults return to the helm of the country.

    But I suspect — and fear — that something much much worse will need to happen before the West really understands what the stakes are.

  12. gallopingcamel says:

    While the 9-11 attacks were barbaric there were some good effects. You have already covered the effect of liberals seeing “…….rich fee-paying Arabic students of his dancing around in joy of what was happening.”

    I lived in Belfast for ten years during the “Troubles”. First it was a shock to discover that the weapons of choice for the IRA were Armalite rifles made in Illinois. One wondered why the US government could not prevent such weapons getting into the hands of terrorists.

    It got much worse when we discovered that the money to pay for these weapons was being collected in bars up and down the east coast of the USA. On a visit to New York on St. Patrick’s day I was sickened to see dozens of people on 2nd Avenue openly collecting money for the “Cause”. Ted Kennedy seemed delighted to stoke the flames:
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100007596/ira-sympathiser-ted-kennedy-was-no-friend-of-britain/

    The good effect that I was referring to earlier was the crack down on terrorist infra-structure in the USA following 9-11. The IRA’s US funding dried up as did their easy access to American made weapons. We never got even the semblance of an apology from Ted Kennedy.

  13. Blackswan says:

    Our current circumstances didn’t begin on 9/11. Some of us can recall the first plane highjackings by Palestinians in the 1970s – passengers and crew murdered, their broken bodies tossed from aircraft onto runways to lie in the sun. We remember airport terminals machine-gunned, as innocents abroad fell in a hail of gunfire. We remember the kidnap and massacre of athletes at the Munich Olympics. Did those canary-in-the-mine events make us wiser, more cautious, more circumspect in how we handle the subsequent Islamic invasions of our Western countries? Of course not.

    Palestinian leader Yassah Arafat was feted as a hero, a ‘victim’ of the evil West, fell ill amid swirling rumours of everything from attempted assassination to AIDS and flown to Paris by the French government, given the best medical treatment French taxpayers’ money can buy, and died anyway – a martyr to his cause.

    For decades the Saudi Royals have pumped hundreds of millions of petro-dollars into the universities of the West – Oxford, Cambridge, London SoE, Harvard, Georgetown – you name it, they are all beneficiaries of Arab largesse. Accordingly, such bastions of learning and Western ‘civilisation’ have adjusted their curricula to embrace their generous Islamic brethren, with a trickle-down effect through our education systems; many graduates ultimately becoming Legislators whose Marxist/Fabian principles are reflected in the multicultural policies that cause increasing social and economic dislocation, and evermore constricting social control.

    The Leader of the Free World is now an Islamist apologist who reverently bends his knee and bows his head to a Saudi king. Since 9/11 Islamists have carried out more than 24,250 murderous terrorist attacks. Check out this list …..

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2014.htm

    ….. and that’s only for 2014 to October. We still have another two months to go to complete the list for another shameful year.

    “Religion of Peace” my arse. As long as we continue to tolerate them, cater to them … to appease them, we can expect more of the same. Much more – as they become emboldened and increasingly demanding and demented.

  14. stan stendera says:

    Pointman, this is pointed right square at you. You expressed in your post how fear governs the response to the Muslim “religion”. Indeed, above I expressed my fear that I would experience reprisals because of my position on these issues. To my credit, I shrugged that fear off. Since I encountered this blog I have been a loyal supporter. Interestingly the very first essay (your posts raise to another category, essays) I read was about being a pointman for a military formation. I interpreted that as YOU had been a pointman, the most lethal position in a military formation. What happened to you, have you lost that courage? I doubt it. Bravery in a man is recognized by other brave men. I know I am brave, that leads me to believe you are brave. Your are wrong apologizing for the Muslims. I can’t believe you don’t know that simple fact. The simple fact that Muslims are stone killers and civilization abusers. They are slavers, woman abusers (genital mutilation, anyone) and pedophiles. What sins are worse? What excuses can be made for the Muslims? That you would even entertain apologizing amazes me. You are a better man then that. I beg you to rethink and “refeel” your position.

    • Blackswan says:

      Stan – I’ve read your comments with interest. I wondered what I was missing, so I read Pointman’s essay again carefully.

      “What excuses can be made for the Muslims? That you would even entertain apologizing amazes me.”

      Sorry Stan, but nowhere could I find any excuses for Muslims or any suggestion that any kind of apology should be forthcoming. What I did see was an overview of how the bleeding-heart Left have promoted multiculturalism that purports to protect minorities and thwarted any and all criticism by playing the bigot/racist card.

      I understand your rage (which I share btw) at the barbaric behaviour of the Islamic world … BUT … I really think you’ve misunderstood what Pointy was saying here. Maybe if you read the piece again with ‘fresh eyes’, you might be the one to “rethink” your position.

      To the terrorists he says … “Things are tougher for you now. The assumption that the apparently lax attitudes of democracies meant we were weak and a pushover will yet again prove to be baseless. We’re not only on guard against you but we’ve got good men actively hunting you. You’d be surprised at how ruthless we can be to defend our freedoms, so you better be prepared to be dragged out of some hole for nothing better than a bullet between your eyes. If that means we’re prepared to trade down an element of our personal freedom, so be it.”

      Definitely no apologies or excuses that I can see.

      • stan stendera says:

        My objection was the overall tenants of the post. Pointman is “excusing

        the Muslins for their atrocities I categorically reject that interpretation. Muslims are EVIL, pure evil. The only way to peace is to eliminate Muslims from the world. Even if only one is left the evil will enviably spread. Even one.

      • Leo Morgan says:

        ‘[T]enants’ does not mean what you think it means.
        Nor does ‘enviably’.
        And the face of pure EVIL definitely includes every person who could seriously contemplate the murder of a thousand million people.

  15. stan stendera says:

    I have been accused above on this thread of advocating genocide. All I can say is that Muslims are practicing genocide right NOW as we blog. I’m all for stamping out genocide. I am not advocating killing any race or any group of people. I am advocating destroying a false religion, indeed, a false political and economic doctrine.

  16. Pointman says:

    @All,

    If it isn’t obvious from the piece, I have deep objections to some of the practices and attitudes of the Moslem world and several of you have expressed similar sentiments.

    However, while there’s nothing that can be done about those things in predominantly Muslim countries, the point of the article was that we have to be confident enough and muscular enough to forbid such practices by essentially immigrant communities into our Western societies. We’ve for various reasons I touched on been too accommodating.

    Over and above that, when sections of those communities start indulging in terrorist activities which harm us, we have every right to go after them and root them out. If that means killing them to stop them killing innocent civilians, I’ve absolutely no problem with that.

    It is the nature and raison d’etre of this blog to tackle contentious subjects that for reasons of self-censorship, are rarely discussed in any honest way by the mainstream media. I know it’s more constructive to discuss honestly and calmly such subjects rather than just using the piece as an excuse for doing a Two Minutes Hate. Hate is what the terrorists do. That’s all they got.

    We’re a lot better than that.

    Pointman

  17. Pointman says:

    @Stan

    If you want to wipe out the religion by killing all Muslims, there are certain practical difficulties. I won’t even bother covering the moral dimension of such a suggestion.

    A quick google tells me there are about 1.25 billion Muslims spread around most countries in the world – that’s about a quarter of the Earth’s entire population. How exactly would you go about doing that amount of killing?

    That’s a lot of bullets, so perhaps a more traditional method like gas chambers would be your preferred choice. Then again, we do live in more technological times, so going nuclear might be a better option. Unfortunately a lot of those countries do contain a mix of Hindu, Muslim and Christian people, never mind a few Jews, and a nuclear bomb doesn’t tend to discriminate which people it evaporates.

    Killing men, women and children for no better reason than their religious persuasion is the action of savages, not brave men. Our fathers fought a world war to stop that sort of genocide and so would I if that necessity ever arose again. I wouldn’t be alone in making that choice either

    Pointman

    • stan stendera says:

      I AM NOT a savage. The Muslim are savages. Your comment about gas chambers is deeply offensive, akin to the warmists calling climate skeptics deniers, as in Holocaust deniers If we made it very, very clear that we do not tolerate the savage atrocities of the Muslim terrorists some of that 1.25 billion Muslims will melt away, or not. It is worth 1.25 billion lives to remove the Muslim religion from the world. In the entire history of the Muslim religion how many lives have they cost. Probably not 1.25 billion, but given the much smaller populations of the world when they were ravaging Spain, Italy, and North Africa, proportionately significant. Not to mention how many have Muslins enslaved. I submit that one, ONE, enslavement is at least five (5) deaths, just among the children, wives and relatives of the enslaved. I repeat: Muslim ENSLAVERS are working in Africa right NOW, today. If you fools can accuse me of genocide I can accuse YOU of supporting SLAVERY, the most hideous crime known to mankind.

      .

    • M Simon says:

      While I agree about the practical difficulties, Islam has to go or change radically. Now since the words of the prophet are forever true and unchangeable and his later words are the operative ones we have a problem.

      It may be that we will need an Islamic solution – you know – their believe or die ultimatum to the Hindus. In this case disbelieve or die.

      IMO the only thing wrong with Stan is that he is 10 or 30 years ahead of his time – if things keep going on their current course. So the question then becomes if you don’t want to see mass murder, Dresden, the fire bombing of Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, what can be done? How do you change the values of 1 billion+ people? How do you get them to come to Jesus?

      You Pointman are optimistic. I do not share your optimism.

      If the war goes on long enough (only 13 years so far – from our point of view) things will get very ugly. It is human nature. A General LeMay will arise and call for things that you will dislike intensely. And he will be listened to. And worst comes to worst acted on.

      What do I suggest? Flood the problem regions with high THC pot, pornography, and psychedelic drugs. The Israelis are already working the pornography angle. You can look it up. Our puritanism currently works against us. If we are trying for a moderately peaceful solution puritanism will not last. We will change and they will too. It is a war to the death.

  18. stan stendera says:

    I’ll bet it’s awaiting moderation. As much as I love you, yes love, I’m not going away on this one.

    PS: I am not gay. I mean “love” as respect.

    • Pointman says:

      Stan, I’ve been good and pushed this thing out as far as I can for you but enough is enough. It’s time for us to go our separate ways. You look after yourself.

      Pointy

  19. M Simon says:

    I remember watching the telly after the wife called me in to see what was going on in NY. I watched and when I saw the second plane headed in I said to her, “This means war.” About 4 seconds before the second crash.

    It probably means 100 years of war as these thing go.

  20. Erik says:

    I would like to add that the man in the photo accompanying this essay is Father Michael Judge, he was the NYFD chaplain for many years prior to 9/11. He was killed while administering last-rites to the first of the people who jumped from the twin-towers. He was killed instantly by a falling body which landed on him. The men carrying him in this photo were people who knew him intimately. He was carried in this manner to the church across the street where his body was laid at the altar.

    • Pointman says:

      One faithful harp shall praise thee …

      THE MINSTREL BOY

      The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone
      In the ranks of death you will find him;
      His father’s sword he hath girded on,
      And his wild harp slung behind him;”

      Land of Song!” said the warrior bard,
      “Tho’ all the world betrays thee,
      One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
      One faithful harp shall praise thee!”

      The Minstrel fell! But the foeman’s chain
      Could not bring that proud soul under;
      The harp he lov’d ne’er spoke again,
      For he tore its chords asunder;

      And said “No chains shall sully thee,
      Thou soul of love and brav’ry!
      Thy songs were made for the pure and free,
      They shall never sound in slavery!”

      Tomas Moore

      http://minstrelboy.blogspot.co.uk/2005/03/lyrics-to-minstrel-boy.html

      Pointman

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